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77 – Staying Diligent with Director Daniel Kinney

In this Happy Hour podcast, we’re chatting with Daniel Kinney about His business ‘The Diligent Company’, what it’s like to be a one man band and lessons that he has learned in the industry.

The Let's Backflip Show - Happy Hour
The Let's Backflip Show - Happy Hour
Ryan Freng & Backflip

Let's explore Comedy, Commercials, Movies, TV and Business

Timestamps

  • (4:28) Who is Daniel Kinney?
  • (6:24) One man band?
  • (7:35) What does a work week look like for Daniel?
  • (22:17) Have I made it?
  • (34:03) ROI.
  • (41:23) Life lessons with Daniel.
  • (51:42) Two truths and a lie.

Transcript

Ryan Freng 3:55
Hello, and welcome back to the let’s backflip show. Happy Hour. I’m Ryan Freng, co creative director here at backflip. And joining me not today is not John. So that is that is my inverse way of saying John is not here. It’s the end of the year, we’re cranking on a lot of different projects. And he’s actually editing right now. He’s got to edit something that’s got to get out this afternoon for tomorrow. So you’ll all be seeing that come out too, as it’s a part of our Christmas party show, video thing that we’re creating this year, that’s going to be a lot of fun. So wait for that. Before we get to our guests, this is a happy hour. So we’d like to talk about drinking, which is maybe the most fun part of this. Well, I guess aside from having really awesome guests, but this this helps me be maybe a little bit more interesting. We’ve got plain spoke cocktails. I was actually shopping yesterday, and I’m walking into high V. And this guy just catches my eye. And he like looks at me and like I’m getting these eyes and I’m like, Who is it beneath the map? I can’t tell who it is beneath the mask. So in he like kind of pulls his mask down a little. And I’m like, I have no idea who you are. I’m like, I’m gonna go be friendly and I walk over. And he’s just a rep. You know, a manufacturing guy for plane spoke. And it turns out, they’re just down the road from us. They make these great, ready to drink cocktails. It’s the brand new old fashion, which is what I had yesterday, and it is delectable. So I wanted to show that I’m not going to be drinking it today. I’ve got a lot of writing tasks this afternoon to to do so. I’m drinking a lot of coffee. That’s that’s one of the things and I’ve got some water, of course here. But that’s not why we’re here. That’s not why you’ve come to the live stream or the podcast. You’ve come for this man, the man the myth, the legend himself, of diligent, Mr. Daniel Kenny, thanks so much Daniel for for coming and hanging out with us. Yeah, no problem. So what do you what do you got for us? What are you drinking today? What’s keeping? Yeah,

Daniel Kinney 5:55
my my small plug, which is one of those things I can’t live without. It’s the cadence cold brew. It’s nitro infused. I like the creamy softness along with the cold brew aspect of it. Because yeah, I am going to, I don’t have a lot of work left today. But it’s going to be a long weekend with friends and weddings and everything. So I’m going to reserve the alcohol for all of that instead. Do More coffee

Ryan Freng 6:29
right now with you and you gotta get you gotta get emotionally and mentally ready with that coffee. Oh, yeah. I love it.

Daniel Kinney 6:36
So activate the Nitro to see the bubbles

Ryan Freng 6:39
in that jar. Yeah, that’s great. And that’s it’s like that nitro that makes it smooth and creamy. Yeah, yep. Yep. Kind of what you’re talking about there. Nice. Well, thanks for coming on. We were talking before. And I just can’t, you know, help, help but have conversation. I always try to keep it quiet beforehand. But we haven’t seen each other in a little while. So yeah, a little bit of catching up. But for those who aren’t familiar with you, can you give us a little rundown? like who are you in? What do you do? That’s hard questions. hard hitting.

Daniel Kinney 7:12
I mean, it’s very. I mean, there’s long and short of it. I think I really started my career focusing on editing. And that was my focus. And that’s really what I did here for a decade in town at mere 34 Productions. And then through that, I just kind of transitioned my way into directing more and more. And then through that also found writing and kind of really dictating the story, dictating creative. And then after, you know, putting my time in, you know, underneath, accompany a larger umbrella, I decided to go out on my own. And that’s what I’ve been doing for the past three years. So even though I call myself, the diligent company, I always, you know, explain it’s a moniker that really, it’s a company that starts and ends with me, you know, I’m on set directing, putting together the assets, pulling everything together, and I’ll be the one on the back end, delivering it through the edit. So I think really, that’s kind of the long and short of who, what, where, here in Madison, and you know, that’s what I do. So

Ryan Freng 8:25
I love that honesty, too. And, you know, just the diligent company is Daniel Kenny. Yeah, I don’t know if I read that somewhere, maybe. But I just, you know, that’s so authentic. Because a lot of times, we put ourselves out there in ways that kind of fall apart. If somebody asks a question like, oh, yeah, who do you work with? Well, at my company, it’s just me, but I collapse, you know, but if you get out in front of it, and you’re like, No, no, this is, this is me. But this is a whole lot of stuff that I do. Yeah. I love that. That branding there.

Daniel Kinney 8:57
Yeah. And it’s actually it’s, I mean, everything’s changing so much in the industry all the time anyway, that, you know, it’s, it’s actually it, I’ve gotten a because like you said, it’s how you represent yourself how you want to go into those sales, meaningless conversations, and you know, where you want to kind of give that, that caveat that like, oh, you know, it’s not full brick and mortar with employees and 40 hour work weeks, and, but I’ve gotten really positive responses for what I do. And you know, why I do it. And you know, it’s definitely not just me, there’s a whole team of people that I always surround myself with to accomplish all the different things we do. So it just kind of, you know, it starts and ends with me. So it really, sometimes it limits the bandwidth. I’ve figured out how much work I can accomplish in a year. But other than that, I you know, it gives me a lot of flexibility in a lot of different ways. used to do different projects?

Ryan Freng 10:02
Yeah. And what? I’ve got so many questions here, one of the ones was just top of mind after you were talking was, what does what does the workweek look like for you, you know, not, as you said, not a brick and mortar, not 40 hours, but you know, it’s not like you’re vacationing all week. And once in a while you do something, I’m sure you’re busting your butt. Yeah,

Daniel Kinney 10:22
I mean, the typical work week for me is really kind of balancing and triaging editing projects, anything I’m producing and putting together and then making sure I’m caught up for those days that I’ll need to be on set. The the first couple of years that I was doing it, my days on set were pretty spread out among, through the year. So it really wasn’t a hard balancing act, but the this past year, just the amount of content that I needed to put together, I was on set a lot more. So it was just a lot of balancing of, you know, making sure the drafts are delivered so I can be on set. And you know, just I think balancing act is really mostly what my days typically end up being. It’s never one project, it’s never one edit. It’s never putting together one production, it’s always a few different things floating around at the same time. Which makes me really appreciate, you know, timing, like now where, you know, I have two edits that I’m working on that is very refreshing. And I relish the time when I can actually do something, take a breath, you know, sit down and be like, Okay, what should I do to my website, you know, a few different things. Just things that you there’s no time for when you’re, you know, producing and creating everything that you need to for clients.

Ryan Freng 12:00
Yeah, that’s, and that’s one of those things that we always talk about continuing our marketing, continuing creative, and just growth while you’re really, really busy. Because that’s always tough. And I feel like, there’s been times where we get really, really busy and all that stagnates. And we definitely feel it and you know, the click through rate, we see that go down too, because we’re not creating new content that we put out there. So that’s, that’s always that hard thing to do. And I do love being super busy. But I can’t wait like, this week is not the guy at plane spoke was asking me he’s like, okay, Creative Director at your agency, what does that look like? And I was like, I was like, I’ve always wanted to share this with somebody, like, here’s my day today. This is not typical. But this is one of my busier days. And we have many busy days, I was like, Alright, I woke up and I worked out. And then I got the kids around and took them to school, you know, for kids took them to school had to deal with all their stuff to get them to school. Got to the office, our servers down right now. So I had to troubleshoot a little bit of file transfer with the editor to try to figure some of that stuff out. And there’s some networking issues. And I’m kind of the tech guy. So taking care of that. Then I had a nine o’clock, with somebody who could provide some marketing services for us, which is great. It’s like the cobbler having the worst shoe. So let’s bring some marketer in to help us with our with our shoes, as it were. Oddly enough, one of the partners here is named Shoemaker. So we there’s probably a funny joke and script in here on that.

Daniel Kinney 13:35
And that’s enough.

Ryan Freng 13:37
Yeah, I mean, we will talk about this in a video and then we’ll just cut to him like, he’s like making a shoebox up. So that’s nine to 10. And then afterwards, I jump over to a proposal that I’m working on, that’s got to get out 1030 ever haircuts. So that’s a little personal me time, which was fantastic. Just away from everything and no communication. Got back after that we had to film something for Saturday. So I started helping that, get that together and get someone going on it here who could do that. And then I had to do a new proposal for something that had to come out today with somebody who is co creative directing with me, but they’re kind of taking over this process or learning this process, which is fun. So a little bit of training and work there. Then had to prep for a new pitch on the web side, downtown to a current client. So prep for that drive downtown. Hang out with him for an hour and a half. Then I picked up some popcorn and scheduled more popcorn for our client boxes this year. Because we wanted to get a bunch of local stuff so I stopped by was it Carly’s I don’t know if it’s Carly’s or Clarys the stage. Pop Yeah, it’s right on state. Yeah. Stop there. Did all that. Got out of there. I went ran by HyVee real quick because I was at a Spanish at home, met plane spoke guy I talked to him was like, Hey, let me get your contact information, we’d love to talk to you. Yeah, even if it’s just like, hey, you’re doing cool stuff, I want to know more about the cool stuff. You know, they have great marketing, in terms of this graphics that they’re doing. So maybe they need help, maybe not either way, I’d like to connect, got out of there and then met John at Kohl’s because we had to get costumes for Saturday. So we did a little bit of shopping there. And then after that, I went to JC Penney’s and target because I’m looking for more costumes for other things. And in the midst of that, I got alerted that a website had some malicious files on it that we host. So I texted our developer, it’s after hours. It’s like 630, she’s, you know, having dinner, she’s out. I’m kind of close to the office, and I’m like, hey, I’ll just go back to the office. Luckily, in the meantime, my wife and family were like, Okay, we know you have a crazy couple of days, just do what you got to do, and then come home and be home. So then I went back to the office, and started working on that. And Scott was still here, our business partner, he came in talk to me for about 20 minutes about random things we had to catch up on. And I got that done, I did a little bit more writing, left here, picked up my kids on the west side, I’m on the east side right now, went home, made a little snack. And then continued writing a script for tonight and more of a script for tomorrow. Kind of some just in time things and then got to bed about 10 o’clock. So you know, when we don’t have days like this, I treasure them. I also treasure these days after the fact.

Daniel Kinney 16:42
Yeah, well, it’s the one thing that you guys always do that really kind of blows my mind is that when you’re marketing, and when you’re promoting yourself, it’s rarely like, Hey, this is stuff that we’ve done. I mean, I’m sure you do this aspect of it too, is that you’re like, hey, this is stuff we’ve done for this client, this is work we’ve already done and this is work we’ve paid for the thing that you do that always just blows my mind is like, hey, we made this video on our own, just going batshit crazy on the studio, just to promote ourselves, we tried to kill ourselves in the process. And here, this is this is our market. Which, which to me is always you know, I definitely have a different bandwidth than a building of people. But to me, that’s always just kind of blows my mind is that your bar for marketing is is I would even argue ridiculously high to a certain degree is that you kind of you kind of put it up there unnecessarily challenging yourselves continually with the Christmas videos and all that sort of thing that it’s like, what are you doing to yourself sometimes?

Ryan Freng 17:56
Yeah, don’t tell my business director that definitely sees the value of the extra creative effort. And it’s funny too, because like, we’ve done one radio commercial, you know, we’ve had a couple of radio ad buys. And we got one giant client out of it. But we also got a lot of great brand juju, just people being like, Oh, hey, that was hilarious. You know, we heard that or, you know, we got search traffic went up. And you know, so it’s that brand identity. But that point you’re making is also the one that the the the PPC company we talked to yesterday mentioned, they’re like, You guys have so much great, you’ve client work. Do you ever just remarket that you’re like, Oh, well, we do share it sometimes. But we’ve never like PPC marketed it. You know, there’s hundreds of videos and maybe 30 of them would be like, these are the best of the best to do so I’ll take that your as an entrepreneur, if you could just give me all the you know, all the best things that you’ve noticed going out on your own?

Daniel Kinney 18:55
Well, that yeah, that’s I think that’s what I think that’s the one of the most difficult things is that trying to figure out that that guaranteed kind of foot in the door, decision making type of process to really kind of unlock that potential of like, hey, you know, I know I could do some great stuff for you. What do you what do you think about me? Like, you know, what’s the best way to make that impression? That’s, that’s constantly shifting and changing and you know, one of the things I’ve figured out in three years of doing this is you know, it’s pretty much wrong about everything to start with. You just immediately figure out how wrong you are and it’s almost like a guessing game of continually figuring out what doesn’t really work. Because you know, it’s for me word of mouth and recommendations from company to company has been, you know, my bread and butter and you know, anything that I’ve really put effort into outside of that is just You know, kind of not really given me the results that I was expecting. So it’s really just a bizarre world to kind of enter into. So, especially when, in my kind of situation where promoting myself is the brand and the brand is myself and that all kind of thing intertwines a little bit. A little dicey, sometimes too, especially, you know? Yeah, you kind of are you almost have to, as talking to somebody about this the other day is that you almost have to intentionally feed your ego, some to prop yourself up to kind of get into that mode of promoting yourself. And that’s really kind of a weird juxtaposition sometimes. So when you try to do this egoless turn on the ego is really difficult.

Ryan Freng 20:59
Yeah, we’ve talked about that before, too. Because, you know, the idea of humility is not necessarily just downplaying everything, but realistically, acknowledging your talents and your successes, but how do you come off not being a douchebag? or rude, or prideful in a wrong way? And especially, you know, especially when you’re promoting yourself to others? How are you like, Yeah, I mean, I’m the best. Like, you want the best thing for this? That’s me, right? Like, for us, it’s great, because we have like the separation of church and state over here. So the Business Director Can, can be like, hey, these guys are the best. And let me tell you why. And I don’t have to be in the awkward place of trying to be okay. How do I not be douchey about this? Because that’s, you know, yeah, I totally feel what you’re saying?

Daniel Kinney 21:47
Well, it’s why bands have opening acts, it’s why comedians have opening acts, it’s like, you know, when you’re, you’re hitting the stage, and that sort of you need like a hype man, and that sort of situation. So, you know, it’s hard going into meetings, where it’s like, okay, this is my little bit of hype, this is my spiel, like, let’s get into like, the practical and stuff like that, it’s a very, it’s an interesting gear to kind of switch into, and I can always, I feel it in my bones, I’m capable of switching into that gear, but I can definitely feel myself kind of transitioning into that it’s a different, it’s accessing a different part of pretty much all of me to kind of go into that sales mode and pitch mode and promotion mode, it’s, it’s a different type of animal,

Ryan Freng 22:35
when I’m sure you to, you figure out how to do it in the best way for you to feel not crappy about it, but also to be like, hey, yeah, you know, like, this is how I can really, really serve you, and I can’t serve you in this way. But if we work together on this, I think it’s gonna be really, really awesome.

Daniel Kinney 22:53
Well, in the small garden advantage that I have so far is that, you know, with the size and shape of my company, there’s only so much work I can do in a year. So, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of clients that, you know, even if they kind of were interested in doing something that I might not necessarily have the bandwidth to take on everybody. So, you know, kind of everybody that I work with right now, I really appreciate working with them. We’ve developed shortcuts we’ve developed, you know, just brevity and creative that really lends itself to a very easy working environment and efficient working environment, like, you know, we get a lot of things done very quickly, because we’ve done so much over the years. So that’s, you know, something I really cherish. And I really appreciate with the amount of clients that I have that, you know, it’s almost it’s a weird word to kind of describe it, but I’m almost kind of like a boutique production company at this point is that, you know, I can choose my clients the same way that they choose me to a certain degree. Which sounds so horrifically pretentious to me. But, you know, it’s the it’s the reality of this situation for me. So, yeah, no,

Ryan Freng 24:11
but I think it’s, you know, I think it’s where, oops, button. I got these buttons set up to do this. I was in the wrong chat. Chat window wasn’t working. Yeah, yeah, I’ve got this little stream deck that, so I don’t have to take my eyes off. But I think that’s, you know, that’s where we all aspire to be. And certainly, you know, you might have gotten this question or like, it’s always fun. Coming back home and then you’re like, oh, just your parents kid or just, you know, the cousin that everyone remembers when you when you were little and you know, the little, little sarcastic, goofy kid, or whatever it was. Because my mom is always like, Hey, how’s how’s the business going? You know, you guys, you guys still getting enough work and, you know, asking those questions and it’s like, it? It’s a great question, honest question. But it’s, it’s interesting, because my response is like, Well, yeah, I mean, we’ve got eight people. So we do something, right. But like that idea of like, when have you made it, and maybe everyone has different kind of levels there. But for me, in terms of mercenary art, which is what I think we’re doing, we’re getting paid to do art. So there’s a mercenary nature to it, and we kind of balance production needs versus artistic, creative needs, and try to come up with something that appropriately maybe not even balanced, but appropriately integrates those to serve whatever our stated goals are. But in terms of making it like, not accepting every job that comes along, like, that’s been big for me to be in a meeting and be like, Yeah, you know, I don’t know if we’re the right fit for this. Yeah. And just to be frank, about, like, you know, you’ve seen our stuff, it’s crazy in a lot of cases, and that might not be your brand. And that might not work for you. But if you’re open to our interpretation of this, we’ll we’ll think about your brand, we’ll bring that in, and we’ll work with it. And we’ll do it in a way that we think could be really, really effective. But if you’re not open to that, you know, if if you’re just looking for do to the camera, there’s lots of those, and there’s lots of people who are talented like that just out of college or whatever, like, try that out. And when you grow and when that doesn’t work, call Daniel call call Ryan, you know, we’ll help you out, we’ll bring what you need.

Daniel Kinney 26:39
Yeah, yeah, I think it’s, I think it applies to so much more than just kind of, you know, the work we do and stuff like that, but I think it’s to get a little heady, I think it’s a larger cultural shift of just, I’ve had this conversation, man, it makes it the power of No, of, you know, it from, you know, being a full time employee and kind of drawing the line in certain places, you know, your time commitment and that sort of thing, or, you know, just clientele of like, how quickly can you turn this around? Like, no, but especially if 99% of the time your answer is yes, I you know, I feel like that means a no can be so much more powerful. And I think, respectful to I think there’s a lot of respect that comes with not being you know, whether it’s inside of a project, whether it’s accepting a project, whether it’s just your personal kind of bandwidth of like, how much energy can I expend in a week, you know, kind of putting a note in there in certain places, I think can be very valuable, and kind of focus you up on what’s a little bit more important. And I think in some ways can earn yourself some respect from different clients, different institutions, and that sort of thing. You know, I think it’s, it’s something I’ve been thinking about a little bit more to, and just, you know, I did this for more of a balance, and then, you know, there’s months out of the year that I don’t have anything in balance whatsoever, it’s just a constant, churn and burn. So you know, I don’t think no, is destined necessarily the answer for that. But, you know, it’s, it’s trying to make sure I’m constantly you know, kind of making all my responsibilities for my clients happy, but then also kind of looking back and making myself happy as well. So

Ryan Freng 28:54
yeah, well, and setting up the, the form and organizational structure or communication or, you know, communication mechanisms so that, when you have these conversations, it’s simple and easy. So the first time somebody says, Okay, we’re going to need this ASAP. You can be like, Okay, well, ASAP for me, means I can get this, you know, we can get this wrapped up in two months. Yeah, it doesn’t mean next week, you know, and here’s why. Or, you know, you have something and like, Okay, we waited, you know, I don’t know if this happens to you, but just with so many projects going on, sometimes we’ll wait weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks to get feedback. And we’ll try that, you know, email call all the things to get feedback, nothing and all sudden, it’s like, hey, we need that next week. Like, okay, we blew through our original timeline, which means there’s already stuff in the next three or four weeks that are pretty much filled. So again, you know, that expectation and that’s it’s always hard because in the service industry, you build these muscles to say yes, yeah. And I think it’s, I think what we have to retrain after we’re out of this startup mode where we say, yes. Just kind of wantonly. Yeah, we have to figure out how to say, yes. And it’s going to be a little later, or, you know, that old improv trope of Yes. And so that we don’t burn and churn, especially while we’re in charge of things ourselves.

Daniel Kinney 30:24
Yeah. And I would I mean, the biggest thing that I would kind of tack on to that is the Yes, and but it’s yes. And educate. That’s one of the things that I really kind of always tasked myself with is it’s never, it’s never I can’t do this, or I can’t, you know, it’s this is the timeline we’re looking at. Because of a few of these, you know, it’s not all the nitty gritty of like, you know, everybody’s booked, let me know this, I can get it, you know, it’s not putting the pressure on the client anyway. But it’s educating them about the entire process. Even if it’s something as simple as this time of year, everybody is busy. So let’s, you know, let’s look out, let’s put it on the calendar. And let’s hold those dates no matter what, we don’t have the luxury of just kind of wishy washy here or there, because of everybody’s calendar, and we want to use the most talented people. And that’s the way we can use the most talented people is preparing and having that date set on the horizon and holding to it. So for me, I think it’s really important to try to simultaneously educate clients in the process of doing things of, of how easy an edit can be, on one hand when we’ve planned everything beforehand, and how difficult it can be. When we step on set, and are figuring out as we go. It’s but but that little bit of education, I think, can go a very long way in trust and shorthand and expectations. And, you know, turning that around and being better on other projects and future projects. I think it’s just, it’s an important thing to do. And it’s important thing to do tactfully that, you know, I think in some ways, I just don’t, you know, I’ve been around it in different capacities, but that just, yes, the customer’s always right. They’re our customer, they pay us to take care of I just don’t think that is a fitting mentality and business model for many things anymore. I just don’t think, you know, being gung ho is one thing, but just universally Yes. To everything I think is is different. It just doesn’t fit. It doesn’t feel maybe that’s just it just doesn’t feel right to me anymore.

Ryan Freng 32:55
Yeah, well, and I wonder too, if that idea, you know, the customer’s always right, makes sense for I forget the term, but products that are quantity based, you know, sales are quantity based, we’re not in a quantity based sales market, per se, you know, sure. 10 is better than 520 is potentially better than 10 in that regard. But it’s not 1000s of units or millions of units that we’re selling. So there’s very intentional work. There’s very personal work being done for each of these. And so to say the customer’s always right in that, yeah, they want it next week, they can have it if you just can’t do that, because it’s so customized, there’s so much, you know, many there’s so many moving parts, whether you have to rewrite a script, or you got to call, you know, a crew to get a shoot together, or you got to edit put something into your edit schedule, even though you’re filled up for the next two weeks. You can’t just say yes, versus, you know, Amazon. Two years ago, I bought a present. And it got shipped to the house, not in a box. So my wife saw it was for my wife. And I got on Amazon, and I was like, Hey, this is pretty crappy. I bought this. And this has never happened before. I bought this for my wife. And it did come in a box. It just came without a box. And I think this is also when they started shipping things outside of boxes because it’s more economical, less damage. And I got somebody on the horn who might not have been understanding my issue so much. They’re like, oh, sorry, tell us what’s wrong. What’s wrong with the product. I was like, there’s nothing wrong with the product works great. But it was shipped not in a box. It ruined the surprise. And I had no idea that it was gonna be shipped that way. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And they’re like, Okay, we’ll just go ahead and send you another one. So not only were they not understanding what I was saying their solution was this couple $100 coffeemaker will just send you right. So because of the quantity of units it doesn’t matter. Just make the problem go away by giving giving them another one. Funny, funny story to basically the next year. You got that option of like, this is going to not be shipped in a box? Do you want it in a box? So I know that there’s probably 1000s. Again, who’ve complained? Yeah, ship. But But I think, you know, that’s that’s the difference between what we do and more quantity based businesses. And so we got, we got to come up with a, maybe we can do it here, maybe it’ll take years, but we got to come up with your moniker, like, you know, methodology or theme of like, for the service industry, the customer is not always right. But you know, what is it?

Daniel Kinney 35:33
Well, even if you really try to quantify what we do with like, views, or hits or anything like that, it really, I mean, that that is only kind of a, you know, it’s a, there’s a big difference between how many impressions a video has, and then how many click throughs? It has, you know, that’s night and day of, you know, certain videos of, is it just something that caught a lot of people’s attention? Or is it just something that made people have a buying decision? You know, that’s, that’s a huge difference. And that’s always kind of a really difficult thing to I mean, if you’re kind of funneling it through Facebook, Instagram, any number of things like that there’s more data than we can even, you know, kind of process anymore, but it’s really, even if you are quantifying it, there’s, there’s still a lot of things that there’s a lot of gray in there that really Yeah, it makes what we’re doing what we’re producing what we’re creating an interesting product.

Ryan Freng 36:37
Yeah. Do you ever do you ever have to convince people of ROI? Or, you know, like, why do you why are we doing it this way? Why don’t we just do it that way?

Daniel Kinney 36:45
Not Not much. Um, you know, I’ve been in a good position that a lot of things I come into is that the ball is already rolling on something. They know what they want and why they’re doing it. So for me, it’s a lot of execution at that point. But yeah, that is just such a, you know, an interesting argument to have of, you know, how is this going to be viewed by your consumer? I mean, I think that’s the other thing, too, is like, even, even in those larger aspects of where it’s not necessarily sales or anything like that is, you know, you, Oh, can you make this change? Can you turn this two minute video into a five minute video? Oh, can you make it seven? Have you considered your audience like, they’re not taped down A Clockwork Orange style with their eyeballs open like that seven minutes is a big ask for your audience. Even

Ryan Freng 37:48
if we’ve got to do something significant in seven seconds. Let’s Yeah,

Daniel Kinney 37:52
yeah. Like, even even if it’s that that question, it’s, it’s content questions. It’s the you have to get, you have to regard that final end audience a lot of the time, which, you know, in that regard, yeah, that customer is always right. Because if they don’t watch the video, then they don’t watch the video, then that’s, you know, there’s no wiggle room there. So, yeah, it’s, it’s a different aspect of who you’re treating as your ultimate customer.

Ryan Freng 38:20
Right. And that’s, that’s kind of a interesting place that we’re in. We’re not an agency and that we do ad buys. Really, I mean, we help people out with that. But we are in the sense that we develop campaigns, from go with, with our clients, some of our clients, and, you know, different clients, it’s works better than others. But the ones that I think hang around, and the ones that we kind of continually see successful over and over again, it’s just more of more of that trusting in that partnership. And coming together, so they get the ball rolling, but they might not know exactly what they need, but they’re open to talk about it. And then we can talk frankly, about all those things that you mentioned, like, okay, somebody told you, you need to get into video, and you know, one of your competitors does tons of good stuff, and they do it this way. And so your first gut reaction is to copy them and do it they do. Well, what if we consider Yeah, consider your brand, consider your customers consider where this is going and develop something that goes specifically there, it might not work. But that’s the best starting point that we’ve found and the partners that that kind of enter into that discussion. That’s that’s where we create I think some of our best work and it’s the most effective in most cases.

Daniel Kinney 39:43
Well, and the, the aspect of it that I’ve really kind of discovered along the way and just kind of leaning into a little bit more as that. I do what I do because I enjoy it. I have Fun, I It’s fun to be on set. Like,

Ryan Freng 40:03
there’s my digitally Hi Fi view here. Yeah,

Daniel Kinney 40:06
there’s, there’s like, there’s a joy in what I do. So really what I’ve, what I’ve started to discover is, the more that I can bring that on set, the more that I can share that with clients and what we’re doing together the really, it really goes a lot farther than I would have expected. Because, you know, it’s, it’s that it’s that argument that I’d be doing this either way. You know, if I if I had some sort of other job, I’d be grinding away doing something ridiculous on my computer at night. So it’s, it’s yeah, it’s it’s, there’s a certain appreciate appreciation there with it is that like, Oh, you’re allowing me to do this, get paid and have fun. Like, you should enjoy the process as well. Especially, more recently, the past year where it’s just been a lot of food is I like eating food.

Ryan Freng 40:59
So it’s dangerous. It’s really

Daniel Kinney 41:02
it’s it’s fun. I and a lot of it too, is you know, you know, it’s just weird. I’ve been on other you know, I’ve been on lots of sets, but have been on other sets where, you know, it’s almost like you’re you’re walking around a house with like creaky boards. It’s like, Oh, don’t don’t dive into the food that no, that’s that’s the professional food. Don’t touch it. I mean, granted, sometimes don’t touch it. It’s covered. Sometimes Don’t touch

Ryan Freng 41:37
it. But yeah, we haven’t filmed it yet. Don’t touch it. Yeah, yeah,

Daniel Kinney 41:41
that hasn’t been in front of camera, you can’t eat it. But other times it’s covered and stuff. But, you know, one of the larger shifts we did this year is that it was very few things we we handled, and we shot that weren’t immediately edible. So they kind of went from prep station to tabletop to client table. And we all shared it and ate it and ate what we were promoting and kind of talked about what it tasted like. And that was, that was a lot of fun. And there’s a lot of joy in that just, you know, kind of, you know, sharing that with everybody and not having everybody kind of walking around on eggshells and be like, hey, that looked really good. I’m really curious to try what we were shooting. Yeah, take a freaking handful of it and crammed. And that’s what we’re here for, you know, we’re making a video about the joy of this food, you should enjoy it too, and kind of understand it. And I think that leads to kind of an understanding of, you know, what we’re doing and why we’re doing it on certain things. And, you know, I’ve I think I’ve just been around so many different styles of sets. I know a lot of what I don’t want to do. And it’s it’s nice to be able to kind of bring that and dictate that on my own. It’s kind of a fire experience that I was never really expecting to be able to do so quickly, I guess, huh?

Ryan Freng 43:07
Sure. Yeah. And that that idea, I think is very interesting of those sentiments. And I think that’s probably just largely as well, kind of part of our culture in the Midwest here. Mike, appreciate each other. And just be realistic in that regard. Like, yeah, everyone wants to eat this. So you know, we’re done with it. And it’s it doesn’t have junk all over it like, yeah, go ahead and dig in. And keep keep working, keep tearing down or whatever you’re doing. But like, yeah, by all means, you know, we’re here to have fun and do great work together. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Kinney 43:45
It’s a fun process.

Ryan Freng 43:48
It’s about 1243. I mentioned before we’re gonna do a tight hour, we’ll try to be as tight as possible. Yeah. So we are going to be playing a game in a little bit. But I did want to kind of ask, as well, I’m very curious, like, what are some, just some of the best lessons you’ve learned when you maybe went out on your own or even I guess, when working at other agencies or production houses, like, maybe what are your favorite one or two things that you’ve learned that you’d like to impart onto the world and we are alive? Right now, if you’re listening to podcasts, we’re not live. Or if you’re what rewatching the video, which is all of our numbers are typically in the rewatching podcast, which I love. But when we get the when we get the engagement live, it’s fun, because I love it when somebody throws a wrench in things. Somebody asked like 20 minutes ago, what’s going on over on Twitch? We’re talking with director from the diligent company, the diligent company himself, Daniel Kinney, just hanging, drinking some Caden’s cold brew and actually had an espresso as well. Nice just to kind of hear some extreme Your hands. So some questions in chat and we’ll address them. Yep.

Daniel Kinney 45:06
I think um, I mean, I think what I was just explaining was it was a good lesson is, you know, bringing joy bringing the bringing, dictating how I think a set should feel, I think in figuring that out, in the joy in the lack of pretension in that I want ideas from grips I want, I want ideas from everybody, I want everybody to know, it’s a collaboration, I want everybody to know, they’re appreciated. I think they sound so fucking basic. But it’s something that I think can be very overlooked in larger mechanisms. So I think that’s one lesson that it wasn’t really a hard lesson. For me, it was more just something that I kind of, you know, what I wanted to do, and I just found there’s more success, the more I do it, I think the other lesson that I really kind of was a little bit more difficult to come into, was, I think, before kind of starting out on my own, and before kind of really taking on more and more directing. I was constantly kind of looking at other directors, looking at how they do things, and constantly comparing myself to that. And knowing you know, certain aspects, or certain personality traits just aren’t me. And immediately thinking that was a way that I was falling short, when I think it’s actually kind of the complete opposite is that you need to find those traits and those aspects that make you uniquely you. You need to kind of lean into them, and hold on to them and cherish them and share them. Because I think, you know, if you put your personality out there, you’re going to find the crews, the clients, the everything that really kind of meshes with that well, and it’s just going to be easier if what you’re putting out there is kind of authentically you. I think it makes things a lot more difficult. If you’re kind of constantly putting out an image or some sort of personality, that’s not quite true to you, you have to kind of hold on to that and maintain that. And there’s so many different aspects of it that can drain your energy. It just makes life and work and everything you’re doing a lot easier when you’re just kind of the way you’re presenting the work and how you do it is you I think that it goes along with the other thing I was talking about, but that I think that was the more difficult thing to kind of come into your muted.

Ryan Freng 48:08
I have two buttons down here to mute. Can you hear me now?

Daniel Kinney 48:11
Yeah, I can hear ya. Okay. Because sometimes my speakers click off too. So I was like, wow,

Ryan Freng 48:17
yeah, I clicked the wrong mute button. And I think I like muted my browser instead of the app. It’s like too much going on too much technology. For me, I’m good. But again, I really love that that sentiment, you know, the authenticity and, you know, certainly, we learn from others, and how others have done things really, really well. But then I think what’s important is to take it and make it our own. And in some cases, there is imitation and copy. But if we’re being authentic, you know, in as much as we can, I think that’s the success that you’ve seen on set. That’s where I feel like the client will come and be like, oh, man, I just love set days when we can come and hang out and do this creative stuff. And I’m like, That’s what I want everyone to say.

Daniel Kinney 49:03
Yeah, well, nevermind, I I’ve really appreciated crew telling me the same thing. They’re like, this was fun. I just got done being bent over backwards for three weeks in Florida. You know, doing documentary stuff that they said it was going to be eight hour days, we were shooting, we were doing 1214 hour days, and it was just horrible. This felt like they worked their asses off for me for a week, but they’re like, oh, this felt like a vacation. You know, that’s, that’s a nice thing to hear too is that you know, it’s not all about the client too, is you need to make your crew happy too. You need to make sure everybody’s happy. It can’t just be kind of like, you know, the main station or the you know, the butler station behind the closed doors that like, Oh, everybody over there is unhappy but all the client and everything here is just It has to be both and, uh, you know, you can’t have that separation too much that, you know, I’m sure on bigger stuff that I might find there needs to be a little bit more of a hierarchy, but just just really haven’t found that as a advantage. Everybody needs to be happy.

Ryan Freng 50:17
Yeah, I love I love having sushi on set too. And surprising people we haven’t worked with yet. Like, oh, my gosh, your food is so good. I’m like, Yes, I do. You know, I’m also often the one who’s thinking about it. Because I’m like, I want you all to have a great experience and enjoy every bit of this, even though we’re busting our ass.

Daniel Kinney 50:36
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Ryan Freng 50:39
And one thing with that hierarchy, I think I’ve found for me, I add like a caveat like, yes, I want to hear everyone’s ideas when it’s appropriate. Yeah. Oh, you know, because we’ve been on some big sets. And this doesn’t happen often. But we’ve been on big sets with, you know, maybe a crew of 15. And maybe, you know, dozens of actors and extras and things like that. Yeah. And you’re trying to work something out with the DP and the client, and then a PA comes up and is like, Oh, well, I think that, you know, and it might not even be a bad idea. It’s just an inappropriate time. So there’s, you know, we try to encourage, like, hey, pas, if you have a good idea, talk to the ad, or the production manager, or a gaffer, or, you know, gaffers talk to the DP. And they can help figure out okay, now would be a good time to talk about that, or Yeah, you know, because typically, the higher level people, too, are the ones we’ve worked with more often. And so they could say, oh, yeah, we’ve done that before. We do it this way, for this reason, so that we don’t have to explain that. So. So I like to add that caveat of like, yes, we want everyone’s creative energy, because this is going to be so good because of it. Make sure it’s an appropriate time to walk. And

Daniel Kinney 51:55
if you’ve spent enough time on set, that’s something you immediately kind of pick up anyway, you’re like, oh, that, that that decision, there’s a lot of other things going into that I’m not even gonna touch that. And, you know, and that’s, I think that’s where it just simple communication. I mean, you know, it’s very open, and like, I’ll be loud when I say like, well do what makes you happy, like, to the DP, like, you know, how do you want to attack it, like, you know, we can, we can go a lot of different ways with this, like, I just need something that sparkles, you know, I don’t need something specific here. So figure out something that makes you happy. And I’ve really, I think I’ve found that on kind of when we’re doing B roll a lot. We’ll get one. And then it’s like, okay, go find something that makes you happy. Like, that’s, that’s going to add to the project more than me, figuring out some other shit for you to do is you figure something. So that’s always kind of nice to do it, too.

Ryan Freng 52:54
I love that. And I love working with people. And you can be like, Yeah, I just want it like, you know, with like, Jordan posts, for instance, I’ll be I just need like, a little more sexy on the side. You know, give me some spice or hit me with this, or you know, and you have that shorthand, and it’s like, boom, they kind of have a sense, and then they make it their own. Yeah, do it do it in a better way than I would probably tell them to do it, which is awesome. Well, and I always like it too.

Daniel Kinney 53:16
I mean, working with Yeah, I mean, Jordan is the worst, but we get by some, yeah,

Ryan Freng 53:20
get him out of here.

Daniel Kinney 53:22
But you know, working with, you know, with the people that I work with, there’s always there’s always a baseline of like, all of this stuff is checked off. So the variables that I always have to worry about, or just very minor minutiae on the top of it. It’s like, oh, let’s little bit moody here. Let’s tone this down. It’s very small thing. So I mean, that’s just, you know, the, what is it, the rising tide raises all ships and that sort of, you know, when you’re working with people that are already going to give you a great quality product, you just, there’s so little that you necessarily have to contribute on top of that to make it great. Yep. That’s really, really interesting and really good.

Ryan Freng 54:12
I love it. All right now it’s time. All right. I think I timed that, right. I was your kids. That’s one kid that I just had say it over and over again, and I recorded it. That’s funny. Yeah, that’s that’s Magdalene. She’s the four year old. She was great. I got to direct her a little bit. So I actually told Daniel, what was going to happen? So he had a little bit of time to prep. So we’ll just jump right into it. We don’t, we’re not gonna play me in John’s on here. So we’ll just get two truths and a lie from Daniel. If you are unfamiliar with this game, and you’re listening, Daniel is going to tell us three different stories. Two of them are going to be truths. True Stories, one of them is going to be a lie and we got to figure it out. If you’re at home, you guess. I guess you could guess after the fact. We’ll get notifications if you comment. But if you guess and you guessed correctly, we’ll send you some some sweet sweet swag. I got I had some stuff around here. Oh, yeah, we got some some fun things we got like, stickers. Chris, we got this thing, which no one has any context for until

Daniel Kinney 55:29
a company? Is that a company sticker? Did you just find it?

Ryan Freng 55:33
No, this is a sticker we made for Christmas video. So it’s contextual. It’s back to the future. We got some of these. I can neither confirm nor deny. Oh, my goodness, we get all this stuff. I’ll send you some stuff.

Daniel Kinney 55:49
No, I mean, I got all my stuff, too.

Ryan Freng 55:52
Yes. I love that. By the way. I think I told you that the first time I saw that the is it a? Was it VHS transformer? Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Kinney 56:00
Yeah. I made my own transformer. So which actually a lifelong one.

Ryan Freng 56:07
Do you have more of those stickers? Because we could send those if, okay, yeah, so people guess right. We’ll send them some of your stickers too.

Daniel Kinney 56:14
Yeah, pins and stuff that I got, too. So let’s

Ryan Freng 56:18
do it. Hit me with it. What are your

Daniel Kinney 56:20
stories? Well, story story. I think it’s so that there’s some mystery, I think I have to the initial presentation is going to be a little bit more brief. Anything that you want in a follow up, we can get we can elaborate more, but the initial presentation of the two truths and a lie will be a little bit brief. Because otherwise I think it just breaks down and I can be I don’t think I lie really well. So I think that’s I think that’s what I’ll lean into.

Ryan Freng 56:53
briefs are better than boxers anyway. So just kidding. So

Daniel Kinney 56:56
I have definitely shaken Jerry Rice’s hand. The most glorious hand I’ve ever touched. I have hosted the biggest contest in the country. I’ll leave it at that because much more detail gets gets. And I’ve definitely been arrested. Bars. Well, yeah, behind bars. So there’s, there’s three vague assumptions about my life.

Ryan Freng 57:43
That’s I love it, too. You might have done this on purpose might not have done it on purpose. The first and this and the third, you said definitely. Oh, yeah, definitely shaken Jerry Rice’s hand. And number three, definitely been arrested and put behind bars.

Daniel Kinney 57:59
Yeah, I mean, to wire but I know how to help. If I need to lie. We’ll see. We’ll see how it shakes out with you or with anybody else.

Ryan Freng 58:09
There we go. We got Aaron on YouTube over here. Arrested is the lie. That’s his guess, Cassie. And then you said you’ve hosted the biggest contest in the country. I’m trying to think what that could be what I know about you. I know. All the cheese food work. Wisconsin dairy farmers work you’ve done is streaming. There’s a lot of it. That’s streaming. And I believe there’s contests in there. So I’m wondering if maybe that is one of the things you’re considering. So trying to think about this? Definitely.

Daniel Kinney 58:45
interiorized brevity, the brevity helps.

Ryan Freng 58:49
Yeah, definitely been arrested and put behind bars. I’ll give you another second. If you’re watching the other other folks who are watching you can get your guesses in there. Yeah, definitely shaking Jerry Rice is hand number one. Number two has hosted the biggest contest in the country. Guys ruins what’s up? You can guess Daniel’s telling us his his two truths and a lie. We’re trying to guess his lie. Definitely. Number three definitely been arrested and put behind bars. I want them all to be true. We’ve had people cheat like that before. I’ve cheated like that before on accident as well. Which is really really fun. Like, oh, crap, that’s Oh, that did him. No, I’m just super, super awesome. All right. So what do we got? I’m gonna guess. Because Aaron guest arrested is a lie. I just we got to spread it out. We got to try to cover it. I’m gonna say you haven’t hosted the biggest contest in the country. So that’s my guess.

Daniel Kinney 1:00:00
Kevin, do you want the reveal?

Ryan Freng 1:00:03
I want I want the reveal.

Daniel Kinney 1:00:05
The long and short of the reveal is that I chickened out and didn’t introduce myself to Jerry Rice. So we were, we were together and I was like, Oh my God, he’s he’s one of my favorite players of all time. I love watching him and just chickened out. So that that’s the that’s the that’s that story. He was. He was enjoying himself with a drink and a cigar and I just couldn’t bring myself to do it. So oh, well, that was kind of you. That’s that’s the that’s the chickening out everything else is same restaurant, same facility. But no.

Ryan Freng 1:00:38
Yeah. So what was the biggest country or biggest contest in the country that you hosted?

Daniel Kinney 1:00:44
So that was for rollerblading at a skate park in Detroit.

Ryan Freng 1:00:50
Tell me more. Yeah, so

Daniel Kinney 1:00:52
I something I started when I was like 17, and like 2001 got bigger and bigger and bigger. And especially it kind of coincided, you know, I was doing it in skate park, it was kind of an underground thing. It coincided with when, you know, kind of the X Games had kind of slimmed down. You know, the height of the X Games was like the late 90s into the early, you know, a 102 and X Games and slimmed down. And they had eliminated rollerblading. So there was a very large for that sort of, you know, kind of outlet get together come together showcase of skill and camaraderie, and all that sort of thing. So by the time I had done it annually, by oh nine 2008 2009 10 and probably into 11, we hit our height, and really, you know, it was 1000 plus people in skate park, jam sessions, a lot of tradeshow booths, everybody kind of there to share rollerblading everything together. So the traveling around a little bit, but really found a tone the last four years in Detroit, big skate park in Detroit. So I ended up in 13. The industry was kind of waning, and I was kind of really trying to refocus on my career. So that was kind of a larger switch to it. So but yeah.

Ryan Freng 1:02:27
So that’s amazing. When are you going to get it going again? I mean, it seems like you have a talent. Yeah, I mean, that’s,

Daniel Kinney 1:02:32
that’s the thing is it just, it I think the most that I’m going to hopefully do in the future is a kind of a, a one off kind of reunion, type of event, get everybody together, especially with everybody loves rollerblading. All of a sudden now it’s been one of the nerdiest things to do on the planet for retro decades. And now all of a sudden, everybody’s like, Oh my God, it’s retro. And then they put them on roll around. They’re like, holy shit. This is fun. So this is way better than skates like this. Yeah. It’s weird seeing it coming full circle. So

Ryan Freng 1:03:13
yeah, that’s awesome. And then you’ve been arrested and put behind bars? Oh, yeah. For something. Something good.

Daniel Kinney 1:03:22
I mean, two guesses why rollerblading was skating. But the the oddest part about it was, I guess the better way to tell the story would be when I told my grandmother, she started cracking up. Specifically because I was arrested at a public skate park. Oh, they they had started to the city skate park, they just didn’t really kind of get the idea of what the purpose of a public skate park was for was to like, accommodate the activity outside of, you know, the city, the streets, the curbs, the handrails and all that sort of thing. And right. You know, I was a grown ass adult man at the time. And they the way they had scheduled the skate park was if there wasn’t a certain amount of people that showed up by like, one or two in the afternoon, they would just shut it down for the day. Okay, which makes no sense to me if I’m working till 5pm. So a couple of my buddies had made our way over there, you know, in the afternoon, afternoon after work, and we just ducked under the fence and rollerbladed and one thing led to another

Ryan Freng 1:04:36
I tried to stay good use of public money.

Daniel Kinney 1:04:40
Yeah, I tried to stay my point to the officer. He didn’t like me arguing with him and I put my foot in my mouth with the phrase, this is whatever you want it to be. And he decided that jail was what he

Ryan Freng 1:04:55
wants. Now this is happening.

Daniel Kinney 1:04:58
So that’s that’s the thing. magic word I’m never going to use around an arresting officer again. So yeah,

Ryan Freng 1:05:04
right. Yeah. It’s that that idea of like, okay, how do I say this respectfully?

Daniel Kinney 1:05:11
Well, I mean, that’s where the conversation started. I mean, he’s approaching people thinking they’re hooligans, and I’m like, Hey, I’ve been working all day. I just wanted to skate. That’s not what they want to hear.

Ryan Freng 1:05:21
You’re like, you want to see this cool. 720 I’ve been working on it on these sweet blades.

Daniel Kinney 1:05:26
All right, I could just tell them I pay my taxes at the city. And that’s a that’s also a great thing that they want to hear too. Yeah, I pay your taxes. Yep, yep.

Ryan Freng 1:05:37
Jail. Yeah, still, you know what, you know, it’s still gonna happen, jail, whatever, I want this to be jail and a little search on you. It’s gonna get uncomfortable. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for coming on. It was so much fun to catch up with you missed you. On Tuesday, we had to cancel that event.

Daniel Kinney 1:05:59
Oh, yeah, we’ve been. We’ve been struggling with how much everybody wants to get together to, you know, socially, professionally socialize in this type of environment. It’s a hard thing to get a to get a barometer on.

Ryan Freng 1:06:17
I also like our MMP group, because I don’t feel like it’s professional. I just in the sense of, I feel like it’s just us. Yeah, it’s just our people. And we’re just hanging like, I love it. And a AF is great. But I always feel like I’m like, Okay, now I have to be a marketer. Yep. You know, to some degree, yeah, to put on that hat. So, awesome. Well, thanks for coming on and taking the time. Let’s see. Anything you want to plug?

Daniel Kinney 1:06:43
Oh, geez, I can’t imagine. I mean, I think I think the only thing that I love to plug is that. You know, the biggest thing probably coming out of this year that I’ll be most proud of, hopefully, we’ll be landing next year. Long and short of it is there, it’ll end up being kind of 16 videos that will be kind of mini Chef’s Table episodes. Cool. cheeses. So that’s one of the things we shot later in the year, we’re still kind of working on production. Yeah, I’m, I’m really proud of, you know, kind of what we’ve done so far. And the rough edits so far, I think there’ll be really enjoyable for anybody that’s kind of into that genre of Chef’s Table, Food Network, anything like that. I think it’ll be right up good things. Yeah. And they’ll just be quick little snippets couple minutes, and you can learn a lot about cheese and anything that you want to pair with them. And it was from experience. It was all delicious. So

Ryan Freng 1:07:48
yeah, I was gonna ask, maybe you got to have like a little camera behind the scenes of you just, you know, mowing down on it as like a little trailer like you want some of this next week.

Daniel Kinney 1:08:00
So yeah, awesome. We’ll see once those gets get up and running. I’ll be, you know, one of the things more proud of this year. So

Ryan Freng 1:08:07
sweet. Yeah, share that with us. Can’t wait to see it. Absolutely. Also, you can check out your website, I believe that’s the right URL, right? That is the right URL. So typically, I just Google, you know, I don’t don’t write URLs. So check that out. To see more. Daniel Kenny. And if you’re listening to this, hit that follow that like that, subscribe, do all the things I don’t know you’re on YouTube hit a bell or something. Smash it one of the one of these days smash it one of these days, I gotta figure out all the things that you can do and just say you could check out our podcast wherever podcasts are sold. We’re on Apple, Google, Spotify, Amazon, this radio thing like everywhere, it’s just everywhere. Check us out. Come hang out. Let us know what you want to hear more of give us a review. I’m told that is good for things and do all this stuff. Yeah. Thanks for tuning in. And let’s see. Aaron says don’t know why rollerblading everyone away. outdoor exercise easy to do. Sounds like Aaron was a rollerblader. Yeah.

Daniel Kinney 1:09:10
Well, the pandemic really kicked that off. Yeah, outdoor exercise.

Ryan Freng 1:09:16
Yeah, that’s right away from people. Love it. All right. Well, that’s what we got. Thanks for tuning in. We’ll see you next time. Bye. Cheers.